2000 Ferrari F360 Test Drive vs. Porsche Cayman GT4

Intro

Well those who have read previous articles or blogs know that I have grown up with a number of Italian exotics my father owned.  That fact has always left a lasting impression and desire for something in that realm, as well as a bit of Nostalgia and memory.  Having sat in my dad's old F360 as recently as 2007 I have always looked at those cars as well as others.  Currently F360 are pretty close in price to my current Cayman GT4 so I figured it was time to start investigating more.  To see if the memory and nostalgia held up and to compare old school analog to modern digital performance.

Quick Impressions / TL;DR

Looks still make an impact on me. Car feels surprisingly more punchy than Porsche.  Feels Fast. Good ergo.  Sound so-so. Classic older car and all that implies from cosmetic to quality to driving feel and handling. Didn't have as much of an "occasion" feel as the Gallardo but also easier to drive, more Porsche-esque comparatively but way older in capability.  Brakes and actually to some extent sound a big letdown.  F1 paddles, and "ease of driving" a bit of a  surprise.  I'd go for a 6MT but for a first test drive the F1 was actually pretty fun.

Looks / Cosmetics

Headlights dated. Car soft but still has that exotic wide low slung look. Challenge grill always good. Going back and forth to my GT4 sort of like both look cool. No question my GT4 and wrap is exotic and looks really good. 360 still in that world tho. Sort of a toss up and of course looks are subjective.  That back end tho... memories of OutRun... But yeah GT4 is still a stunner especially in green.

Probably more worth noting it is things like bits of trim under carpet area missing under wheel.  Driving around the top plastic bits of defroster surround pop out and fell into lap of my buddy who was passenger. Typical of these. Dash shrinkage etc.  General cosmetic wear and tear on paint, window trim, wheels etc etc.  30k plus miles and nearly 20 year old car.  Yeah. In that way reminds me more of my old 2001 Boxster S. Which makes sense same era / age.  A pre-owned car decades old.  Not a pristine show car but a driver.

Engine / Transmission 

Surprisingly spry when you consider when this car came out. Felt as fast or faster than GT4 tho I know it’s not quite the same. Close enough. That v8 torque helps.  Still a long draw to red line but torque continues to build. Similar to Porsche it’s a high revving prefer to be at higher rpm car. But felt like a stronger pull sort of like Quaids GT3 I was in vs my GT4.  Weird being that I feel like 0-60 times etc are slower than my GT4.

My buddy was instantly laughing from passenger seat. I also felt the torque but still not as much as say Gallardo was torque wise.  And passenger seat plus auto transmission always makes it feel "more".  Honestly for straight line torque fun no Q the Gallardo was the winner.  That's the only way the Gallardo was the winner.  Straight torque and looks.  For any sort of usability for "driving" Ferrari or Porsche.

The F1 transmission was actually fairly fun. Since you still have to let off of gas and shift. Still fairly engaging. That said I would only ever want a 6mt gated shifter.  

Side note this car had a check engine light that never went off. 

Sound

Sound was the usual more loud idle and cold start of an Italian car.  That said I was surprised that the tone didn’t really get to the high pitched F1 feel I was expecting.  Honestly my gt4 and headers sounded better and higher in pitch at redline. Plus louder than the 360 with capristo. Surprised me.  Maybe I am expecting 458 sounds.  Maybe I just like my car.  Funny as I was recently considering yet even more exhaust for GT4... 

Steering / Brakes / Handling 

Steering lighter as mentioned by reviews. Not horrible but not a Porsche.  As you start to get to faster speeds and turn you start to lose a bit of assuredness about what the car is doing.  Nothing as bad as the Gallardo which felt like absolute zero no info....  But not my Porsche.  Little bit of slop and not as quite as precise as even my VW but way better than the Lambo. So overall steering and suspension a bit soft. Salesperson mentioned they would suggest tightening up/redo suspension stuff.  Just to plus it.  Makes sense.  Can’t imagine what that would cost.   

Brakes were disappointing. At least compared to my GT4  Maybe even to my Cayman S.. Just nowhere near as much bite as I would have wanted or expected moving at that speed.  Again I guess I am spoiled by gt4. Or maybe this car needed a flush or something. Also possible.  And again it’s 20 years old.  Classic car. But so fast you definitely want to be thinking about how fast you attack corners. Or slow down for freeway ramps etc earlier than I anticipated. 

Suspension softer. Again not bad just not modern as much.  Did a freeway exit out then side roads back. So got some good feel of car in various scenarios.  Not like a ton of body roll but again not GT4.  Actually thinking back car was maybe smoother over bumps too.

Ergo

Actually quite good. Didn’t feel too different compared to Porsche driving and feel. Visibility was good back and sides. Car size felt similar etc. At normal speeds felt like could just cruise around.  Again similar. Felt like I could understand the dimensions of the car, and see what I needed to.  Having to drive in a narrow construction bit on Freeway with divider blocks to my right was tight but ok.  About same as I felt in my Porsche.

Summary 

Can’t say I am surprised car felt 20 years old but I guess actually driving it - drove that point home (pun intended) quite a bit more than just reading about it.  As I was driving and discussing with my friend the F1 trans and torque we were both mulling what a 458 must feel like.  Tho my suspicion is faster and torque, faster shifts and better handling like gt4 but also meaning more filtered less analog.  Is that a good thing or a bad thing?  i just imagine a 458 is basically my GT4 with not as good steering/handling, but crazy sound, way faster and equally digital.

I did a quick DM to a guy I know who has a 360 and was out driving it today. His response was of course you can’t compare a modern car to the 360. But he likes the analog feel it has but overall took him some weeks to get used to and appreciate.  Pretty interesting. I’ve seen people who had had both. And others who have had both ferrari and porsches and such and swore they would keep the 360 and sell everything else before it.  

Anyhow interesting. During the drive I was like wow. I was actually impressed. It sort of had the better feel of a sports car.  On the other hand I don’t know that it felt "different enough" than the GT4 sports car feel other than being a dated older version.  The Gallardo was somehow giving me a much more nostalgia memory feel with the gated shifter and low seat and visibility reminding me of the Countach. I feel like the Lambo was more of "an occasion" but at the same time even -worse- of a "car".  Popping back into my GT4 I was like yep feel a bit more filtered but wow much more precise. Trusting. Able to drive faster.  Brake better. Etc.  I guess I was expecting the F360 might feel more "special".  I remember reading some forum where people were talking about the difference of Lambo vs Ferrari...and that you need to drive both to understand "which one you are" or prefer.  I can understand the show-off big muscle lambo vs. racing heritage ferrari snob viewpoints now.

I also have ‘waned’ quite a bit in recent months over the whole lust of an Italian exotic. I think wrapping my car has given me that extra bit of fun too. Interestingly I felt like my gt4 got more attention. Then again I wasn’t really looking around Vs focusing on test drive.  But yeah.  Very interesting.  The salesman was ogling my car and wrap from the moment I showed up.  Even took video of me pulling out of his shop etc...Heh

Anyhow from a “scratching the itch of owning an exotic” the 360 would be livable and fun. (assuming I could stomach occasional service costs ) But having tasted the fruits of modern day performance I don’t know that I even want to go backwards. I guess I respect people driving classic cars now in a different way. It’s just a different experience.  Probably more raw but I don’t know that raw translates to fun as much as maybe I was imagining...

My friend left me telling me not to ever drive a GT3.  Because even with PDK I'd want to move forward that way vs. the GT4.  Heh.  Like I said I sort of wonder what a 458 is like but I love my 6MT.  Reality is unless a gen 2 manual trans GT3 falls from the sky at some affordable price and I test drive it doubtful I'll be changing cars...

Porsche just nailed everything so well with the GT4...    I think if I ever do nostalgia thing it would have to be in addition to not in replace of...  I also perhaps would need to drive another different 360 to get a feel, have a second more calm test drive etc... but I am pretty sure I am hitting the nail on the head about "sense of occasion" which is more what I was after with the exotic and nostalgia thing than anything else.  And in that regard it seems like other than Lambo the Ferrari and Porsche are more on equal footing.  Which means the GT4 will win by default.

It also cracks me up that this "Ferrari" is basically same price or less than some of the Teslas roaming around all over today.  What does that mean?  Actually what I mean more is perception of owning a Ferrari when in fact it's less expensive than other peoples daily drivers... of course...maintenance....

Thanks for reading!

2005 Lamborghini Gallardo Test Drive vs. 2016 Cayman GT4

Introduction

Well it's been a while since I have posted here, but I decided it was wotth it to log yet another comparison test drive for future reference.  I drove an Alfa Romeo 4C back in December 2015 which I blogged about, and figured this would be a good addition.

This time... it was for a 2005 Lamborghini Gallardo with 6 speed manual gated shifter.  The comparison is with my current car, a 2016 Porsche Cayman GT4.  Having grown up with lots of Italian exotics that my father owned in the 80s and 90s I have always had a yearning for something of that nature.  The GT4 is an amazing car... and quite visceral by modern Porsche standards... but the gated shifter, sounds and looks of something like a Lamborghini has always been of interest.

In recent times many of the cars from the 1990s and 2000s have dropped in value to the point where they are at or near the price of what a GT4 fetches.  A recent online search (cars guys are always just "browsing" right?) yielded a 2005 Gallardo just a little over an hour from me in Sacramento.  After a brief call to the dealer I arranged for a test drive the following morning at Luxury Motorcars.

Off I went, braving smoke and ash that was falling in that area from recent fires to check out the car.

The test car awaits...

My Cayman GT4 enroute to the dealer...

Initial Impressions

Having sat in a friends Gallardo once before I sort of knew what to expect.  Overall this car is about 13 years old.  I wasn't expecting modernity.  Nor was I expecting the refinement of the German GT4.  Still there is something about the Lamborghini that has more street looks.. or "presence" if you will.  It's wide... it's low... and even if it is starting to look a bit dated, it's still a Lamborghini.  The car looks good, but compared to the GT4 I don't know if it is "better".  Perhaps more exotic...but hard to say.  Looks are subjective anyhow... Still I consider my GT4 a baby exotic.  With proper wheels or wrap it could hold its own I feel.  On the other hand the wedge shape is still a classic.  On the street especially in California where Porsches are quite common, the Lamborghini will still turn heads.

The car was generally prepped for me in the garage but they still had to move another car to get it out.  So I asked them to do those honors.  I got to stand outside as they did a cold start in the closed garage...  Epic sound.  Reminded me of Car Week quite a bit.  There is no questioning when a Lamborghini starts up...you look around.  Especially in any sort of closed off space.

Cold start "inside" was of course pretty epic

Interior

Getting inside the car isn't too bad.  You definitely sit lower than the Porsche.  I'm pretty short which historically means that I fit better in exotics.  Still I had some ergonomic issues with the Gallardo.  Notably I wished the seat went higher upwards than it did.  You sit low in this car.  So low it makes it hard to judge where the front end falls off.  In addition I had to move the seat to the limit forward to reach pedals and push the clutch.  I actually adjusted some of the lumbar to help.  Still I wasn't exactly "comfortable".  So much for "short" being helpful.

In some ways this hearkened back to my fathers old Countach.  I remember even then using a pillow to help push forward in the seat.  The car was usable but not exactly laid out for comfort for someone with my smaller stature.  Still the Gallardo seats felt reasonably good.  Bolsters felt solid and I felt planted.  Comparatively I have also driven a few R8 V8's.  Those seats feel like large sofas that I slid around in.  These definitely gripped.  But the R8 felt ergonomically more comfortable to me.

Definitely a Lamborghini interior

The air conditioning worked amazingly well despite reasonably old buttons.  My only two real gripes would be the radio which looked and felt archaic with its display... and the fact it took both CD and ... yes ... cassette tape.  Add the fact that I couldn't get any sort of digital speedometer display in the main center gauge cluster.  Not knowing exactly what speed I was driving without looking at tiny numbers on the analog dial was annoying if not downright frustrating.

Radio sound quality was ok... I didn't really spend time trying to adjust it.  It seemed like the same low quality you get in the Porsche.  But lets face it, you're really going to be hearing engine noises most of the time anyways.

So dated...

Driving

Pulling out of the dealer was an interesting procedure.  By comparison to the very long throw and heavy feeling of the Cayman GT4 clutch, the Lamborghini has a very short and light feel.  Very much the same as the Audi R8s  I have been in.  And similar to a F360 I toyed with while parked once.  That said the engagement was still fairly high.  I had an interesting time trying to figure out how to pull out.  I definitely let the clutch spin a bit to make sure I wasn't going to stall.  Mostly it's just a completely different feel.  I started connecting and smoothing out by the end of my test drive but never really got "perfect" with it.

Braking

Once on the road I didn't have far to go approaching my first stop sign.  After a brief spurt I hit the brakes.  Then hit them harder.  Because the initial feel and amount of braking was significantly less than the same amount on the Porsche.  They aren't totally horrible...well maybe.  But I found I had to push fairly firmly to get any sort of real braking.  The modulation didn't feel linear.  A bit of throw with not much result, then suddenly braking with lots of force.  Not exactly what I was hoping for.  Still with a heavier car I expected some amount of braking to feel less precise.  It's possible this car needed a brake flush.  Or perhaps I just wasn't used to it.

I also did a fairly hard brake test on an offramp from the freeway part of my test drive.  By that point I was getting used to the car and the brakes there felt decent.  Still there is no question the car is bigger than the Porsche.  It feels more agreessive, full on or full off as far as how it wants to be driven compared to the GT4.

Transmission and Power

As mentioned this car has the sought after 6 speed gated shifter.  In general when I've tested cars like the R8 I found myself somewhat non-plussed.  The shifter in the GT4 is generally considered to be one of the best ever in modern day...and it is.  That said I did like the 6 speed in the Gallardo shifter wise.  The click click of one gear to another was pretty cool.  However not being used to it I did find myself looking down to make sure I was actually in the right gear.  It's strange but I suspect it's something one would get used to and I would enjoy over time.  Again the GT4 displays both speed and current gear in a digital display right in the center gauge cluster.  Both are missing in the Lamborghini.

Pedal-wise, I still found the clutch a bit unnerving.  It may be that I just needed more time to get used to the car and how it engages.  But the lack of experience with the gated shifter, and lack of feeling on the clutch made me constantly aware of how poorly I was doing.  There was a lot of apologizing to the salesman about how I wasn't used to this car.

Interestingly the first 3 gears felt pretty grabby and chunky.  On the freeway the higher 4,5,6 gears felt a lot softer and smooth with a more normal "seat in" feel that was more Porsche like.  I don't know if that's an indication of wear on the clutch or not.  This car had a bit over 17k miles...  A throwout bearing was recently replaced but the clutch I believe was still deemed to be "good".  Or maybe the seller just didn't bother.

Yes... it's good

So being unused to the car I felt like a new driver learning how to drive stick again.  Pretty violent gear shifts but fun.  Gearing actually felt a bit long similar to the GT4.  I know this is an issue that was addressed in the 2006+ cars where they shortened gearing, changed suspension and also changed steering rack and exhaust.  Still it wasn't bad... but I found myself staying in higher rpms...  I never felt like the power was going to get away from me.  I can understand why people supercharge these engines.

That said the car isn't slow.  Like the GT4 you can be at "decent" freeway speeds in 3rd gear.  And it does push you in your seat a bit more... but it's not a ton more than the Cayman.  Full disclosure my GT4 has Street Cats and Stage 2.

Overall the car felt fast... there were several times I was like wow I feel like it's fast..oh it's THAT fast.. wow.  Ok more than I thought.  Interesting...  it may be I just wasn't used to the car... or that it is a bit more feeling speed wise because you're lower to the ground. But not so feeling that you realize just quite how fast you are.  Plus I was still distracted focusing on the gated shifter.

One last note... my Cayman GT4 with Sport mode will auto-rev match when downshifting.  That said I can also do it manually.  In my old Cayman S when I did it by hand (or is it by foot) all the time, the car definitely felt a bit "electric" and drive by wire.  Sometimes a full throttle blip would result in less throttle etc... the Porsche computer helps you to get a more perfect rev match.  The Gallardo was similar, to the point where I would blip  the throttle but actually it seemed like nothing would happen.  Literally nothing.  I am not sure if this was because I was just so off and not used to the clutch (and gated shifter seemed like it was slowing me down), or if it was electronic nanny's interfering and not letting me rev match for some reason.  Again more seat time might help, but it seemed odd.

Steering

Perhaps the biggest difference to the Cayman is the steering.  The Gallardo steering felt a lot less precise.  Over slow turns I felt like I hard to turn the wheel a lot farther than I do in the Porsche.  In addition overall the AWD feel and weight of the car made it feel way less tossable.  I managed to get a nice big sweeper on an off ramp where I pushed the car a bit more.  People said the car is "not confidence inspiring" especially at slow speeds.  I would agree.  I am not sure what it is but there is something about the way the car turns in that makes it feel like you are fighting it a bit.  Or maybe it is just less "feel".

By comparison I pushed pretty hard in my GT4.  I can get the back to swing a bit but and have a blast putting down the power.  The Porsche chassis is just so communicative and the car so telepathic it will just do what you want and you can push it and play with it.  The Lamborghini seemed like the beast you might have to wrangle and be careful with.  Not so much because of the power... but because you just don't trust it quite as much.

V10 power plant

Sound

With a big V10 behind your head you expect the car to sounds good...and it does.  It was unclear if this car had an exhaust mod or not.  But it sounded quite decent.  With my Sport Headers on the GT4 I would say they were similar sounding actually.  With the Lamborghini being slightly louder.  In addition the tone near red-line is a lovely high pitch wail that counterparts the lower range nicely.  Even with windows up on the freeway, you know when you are on the gas.  Again similar to my Soul Performance Headers.  Windows down, great sound, and under any sort of bridge or underpass it's as if you are in a tunnel.  There's no question this car would get attention and looks driving it.

The salesman mentioned having sold a previous Gallardo with a Stasis exhaust that was epic.  I can only imagine what aftermarket would do...  (drool)

Visibility

I mentioned sitting low.  Overall the car felt like a mix to me.  The rear 3/4 view in the car is blocked by the rear pillar in the same way the R8 has the side blades you can't see through.  The front of the car was hard to judge, at least for me.  In addition this test car had an issue with the main rear view mirror.  It was a self dimming mirror but broken so the bottom 3/4 of it was near solid dark.  Only the top part was clear and functional.  With what little rear view I could get (didn't seem like it would be much more even if the rear view mirror was working) rear visibility was pretty limited.

However on the freeway the reality is the side view mirrors are decently big.  Maybe even wider than the Cayman.  I actually felt quite confident changing lanes...and despite a fairly high belt line on the car looking out the side windows, the view isn't bad.  Let's face it though this is a car you are going to be driving forward more than anything else.  Probably passing others...

Thinking about using this car for any sort of "errands" like I have with the Porsche is a different story.  Again it might be the sort of thing getting used to the car would ease.  But I don't know that I'd love trying to figure out how to park it anywhere and everywhere.  The lack of a rear view camera also made it challenging to back up with... more so than my current car perhaps.  That rear view is really quite limited.

Summary

So where does that leave the Gallardo?  For me I think the ergonomics alone were the main issue for me.  That mixed with super dated radio and such made it a big question mark.  It made me really appreciate just how good of a car the Cayman GT4 is.

But, there is no question driving the Lamborghini is an experience.  You have to pay attention to what is around you due to looks, visibility, and general feel of the car more so than the Cayman.  It's wide.  It's low.  It's loud-ish.  When I jumped back into my Porsche it actually took some getting used to.  I suddenly felt like I was sitting high up in a Honda or something.  The clutch pedal and shifter felt too long to throw and actually a little odd all of the sudden.  Overall my car felt more plain...  There was something more aggressive about the Lambo.

Still enjoying the sound of the Flat 6 engine was just as good as the Lamborghini thanks to the headers.  Putting down power was a bit slower and definitely a bit less torque filled but you can play with the car handling-wise a lot more.  It felt safe and easy to toss around.  But maybe a fair bit less "special".

It is interesting.  In the "moment" when I finished my drive I was like no...no way I would trade cars.  The GT4 just does so much well and in a balanced way.  Comfortable yet sporty.  Fast but refined.  But thinking back to it, there was something about the gated shifter and exotic nature of the Gallardo that makes me second guess that opinion.

In reality I think the Lamborghini would be a great car to take out for the occasional drive and show.  But the Porsche wins better driving car, and maybe even more fun on twisty roads.  The Gallardo would be fun to go out in here and there, but I don't know that I'd actually want to "own" it for any sort of long term period.  The Cayman GT4 fulfills a lot of what makes a car good to enjoy, without the same amount of fanfare and drama.  I don't know if that's a good thing or not.  It might depends on ones mood or intended usage at a specific moment in time.

I think back to the Alfa 4C test drive I did.  There's something about it that was hugely engaging and memorable.  It's something I think back to when I drive other cars as a point of comparison for how memorable and engaging, and yet imperfect it was.  The same will probably hold true for the Gallardo.

I didn't get to test drive the Ferrari F40... I wonder why...  :)

Not a bad garage...

Thanks for reading!

I'm now on SmugMug!

That's right!  I am now on SmugMug... I have tons and tons of photos there now.  From old car week photos, to old classic pictures I took of exotics during the 80's and more.

Check it out here:
    Michael Comet - SmugMug

I'm still posting to IG and elsewhere, though my blog has definitely slowed down.  Speaking of car week I also have created a useful Car Week Guide on my main website.  Take a look if you want car week info.

Enjoy!
Michael

Napa / Berryessa Double Cayman Run

Sometimes you just need to get out and drive.  Especially when it's been raining...for  a month.  Most people I knew were heading to the SF Cars and Coffee at Alameda.  My plan had always been to try to get up north and do some driving around the Lake Berryessa / St. Helena / Napa area on this day.  My friend, another Michael, with another red 981 Cayman S agreed with me.  It's all about the driving and the scenery.

With recent rains and flooding in California I was somewhat concerned about road conditions but figured it had been about a week to dry out.  After checking online it appears roads were opened.  There were definitely wet, muddy, and debris portions of some of the roads but by and large things were pretty good especially in sunny areas.  We hit a mixture of sun and blue skies with damp foggy conditions at certain elevations and areas close to the hills.  We always choose to leave pretty early to avoid as much traffic and bicyclists as possible.

Here are some photos.  We also hooked up my second GoPro to my friends car and ran the audio line and mic I had all the way to the back plate.  Great sounds of that Flat-6... I need to run the wiring more permanently on my own car soon.

Scaled down photos:

Microphone Prep

I need to buy a toe hook mount, but this is my friends car he just used my suction mount

Suction mount worked well 

Turning on the cameras...

Fog

Windshield stop while I fixed my walkie talkie

Foggy Stop = Great Lighting

My tint looks dark here!

From fog

to sunshine

Snow capped

Napa wine train and friends car

Some Video:

Thanks!

Quattro Crew drive up Mt. Hamilton

Met some old and new friends for a drive up Mt. Hamilton in December.  I organized the drive since I was itching to get out and have fun on some roads.  Due to the temperature and gravel we didn't go all the way to the top but it was still fun.

Got my tinted tail lights on now!

Huracan and many many Audi R8s

Love it

When your friend drives the same car and you catch him by surprise

All here!

Car Week 2016 Highlights

Ok here are some highlights from Car Week.  If you really want to see a lot...and I do mean a LOT of car week photos I always upload my full set to my personal website.  There are literally hundreds and hundreds of pictures.  You can see my full set at:  2016 Monterey Car Week Picture Gallery.

I make this trip every year.  People always ask me why.  I guess if you aren't into cars, driving, ocean views, twisty roads, and even more cars then you wouldn't understand.  Pebble Beach car week is the largest longest car event I believe in North America.  If you want to see cars you usually would never get to see, just visit Carmel during that time.  There are several "concours" events during the end of the week and some free things as well.  Even just parking at Carmel to eat or shop is like going to a car show.

Here are some highlights...

I added myself to the end of an epic line up I came across on 17-mile drive

These guys had just finished a drive around the area, must have been epic.

OceanView

Ran across IG user DoctaM3

My good friend from work Gus who has professional photo gear took some amazing photos of my car and others while visiting the Werks Reunion... here are some...

Photo Credit: Gus Dizon

Photo Credit: Gus Dizon - Werks Reunion

Photo Credit: Gus Dizon  - Sea of Porsches!

Photo Credit: Gus Dizon - Spyker C8

Photo Credit: Gus Dizon

Photo Credit: Gus Dizon - Revzani Beast - Amazing to see this on the road!

Photo Credit: Gus Dizon - New Acura NSX

Photo Credit: Gus Dizon - Lamborghini Hospitality Area

Photo Credit: Gus Dizon - Koenigsegg Agera R at EOCR

Thanks for looking!